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JUILLET 2003 A MARS 2011

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Ah non ! Imprimer
Auteur : Ion
Sujet : Ah non !
Date : 2008-04-09 18:02:42

Vous me faites là un bien mauvais procès. J'ai bien lu vos extraits (tout au moins ceux des textes effectivement promulgués; j'ai ignoré volontairement ce qui n'est qu'un schéma conciliaire non voté, donc sans autorité indiscutable).

Et justement, pour celles que vous citez être des lois qui vont à l'encontre de la "doctrine immuable de l'Eglise et ses droits sacrés" Pie IX précise de même pas en parler "Nous ne parlerons pas ici de quelques autres lois ... ". Je n'en n'ai donc, logiquement, pas parlé non plus.

Enfin, c’est vous qui déformez vos propres citations : alors qu'il s'agit bien de réprobation de projets particuliers, "Nous demandions avec la plus grande force que [ces projets] ne fussent jamais mis en pratique ..."», vous en faites, de la part de Pie IX, des demandes universelles dans le temps et dans l'espace, je vous cite :"demandes pour que des lois anticatholiques ne soient jamais mises en oeuvre"

Bref, j'ai beau chercher, je ne vois rien là que des circonstances bien particulières, et de portées, jusqu'ici, non universelles.

Ion


La discussion

 L'herméneutique, elle a bon dos., de Wallenstein [2008-04-06 19:12:13]
      question banale ..., de CP [2008-04-06 20:01:06]
          J'approuve., de Paterculus [2008-04-06 22:00:53]
          Votre pseudo dilemne est un sophisme, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 15:20:05]
              Ah ?, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 16:03:48]
                  Ou çà ?... Ici !, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 16:48:38]
                      Pas extraordinairement..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 17:06:30]
                          Nous sommes bien d'accord !, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 17:30:12]
                              Mon petit d'André..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 17:57:33]
                                  Admirable !, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 18:17:56]
                                      Horreur !, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 20:27:42]
                                          Oui, il est bien plus facile de dire, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 20:51:21]
                                              Sur ce point vous avez évidemment raison, de N.M. [2008-04-07 22:29:24]
                                              C'est pourtant simple, de Ion [2008-04-08 01:42:13]
                                                  C'est vous qui déformez Pie IX, de N.M. [2008-04-08 11:00:42]
                                                      Votre argumentation ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 13:45:37]
                                                          Hallucinant, de Une Ame [2008-04-08 14:04:48]
                                                              Ah ?, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-08 14:31:13]
                                                              Sans doute n'ai-je pas été assez clair ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 14:31:16]
                                                                  C'est au contraire d'une grande importance !, de N.M. [2008-04-08 14:56:24]
                                                                      J'ai du mal à vous faire comprendre ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 15:19:01]
                                                                          Cher Ion..., de N.M. [2008-04-08 17:56:06]
                                                                              Mais cher NM ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 18:19:28]
                                                                                  Mais enfin..., de N.M. [2008-04-08 18:56:32]
                                                                  Curieux de voir où cela va vous mener., de Une Ame [2008-04-08 15:40:41]
                                                                      Réponse ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 17:04:27]
                                                                          Et comment expliquez-vous dans ce cas..., de Vianney [2008-04-08 18:57:25]
                                                                              Mhh ?, de olo [2008-04-08 19:14:14]
                                                                                  Quelques exemples concrets..., de Vianney [2008-04-08 20:09:56]
                                                                                      Sympa vos exemples, de olo [2008-04-08 20:35:10]
                                                                                          Je serais moins affirmatif, de Vianney [2008-04-08 20:44:10]
                                                                          Ah ? Question complémentaire dans ce cas., de Une Ame [2008-04-08 21:48:48]
                                                                              Difficile effectivement mais ..., de Ion [2008-04-09 09:40:25]
                                                                                  Ah d'accord ! C'est là votre argument ?, de Une Ame [2008-04-09 11:58:50]
                                                                                      Mauvais mais utile !, de Ion [2008-04-09 15:01:42]
                                                                                          Cicéron, de Une Ame [2008-04-09 17:01:26]
                                                                                              Ah non !, de Ion [2008-04-09 18:02:42]
                                                          Hallucinant bis !, de N.M. [2008-04-08 14:42:50]
                                                              Je passe sur ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 15:07:11]
                                                                  Toujours hallucinant , de N.M. [2008-04-08 17:40:17]
                                                                      Nous arrivons au coeur du débat, de Ion [2008-04-08 18:10:21]
                                                                          Certes, voilà le coeur du débat, de N.M. [2008-04-08 18:51:08]
                                                                              J'ai justement fait attention de .. , de Ion [2008-04-08 19:17:36]
                                                                                  Cela revient en définitive au même, de N.M. [2008-04-08 19:27:34]
                                                                                      Cela ne revient pas au même ..., de Ion [2008-04-08 19:41:03]
                                                                                          Non !, de N.M. [2008-04-08 19:44:17]
                                                                                          L'Eglise a pourtant loué le recours au bras sécu [...], de Vianney [2008-04-08 20:36:12]
                                                                      Evidemment, de N.M. [2008-04-08 19:09:30]
                                                      Objection M. l'abbé !, de Une Ame [2008-04-08 21:42:11]
                                                          Réponses à vos objections, Excellence, de N.M. [2008-04-09 10:36:56]
                                                              Subsistit in..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-09 13:39:53]
                                                                  "Sphères d'appartenance" ? "En auc [...], de N.M. [2008-04-09 14:38:28]
                                                                      Tout baptisé ..., de Ion [2008-04-09 15:10:24]
                                                                      Merci..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-09 16:15:29]
                                                                          Réponse groupée, aux intentions d'Athanasios et  [...], de N.M. [2008-04-09 17:17:26]
                                                                              Pourquoi oubliez-vous de citer ..., de Ion [2008-04-09 18:15:07]
                                                                                  L'appartenance in re ne peut être partielle, de N.M. [2008-04-09 18:34:17]
                                                                                  Vous aurez d'ailleurs sans doute remarqué..., de N.M. [2008-04-09 18:44:54]
                                                                              Unitatis redintegratio : ce n'est pas vraiment ce  [...], de Marchenoir [2008-04-09 18:56:47]
                                                                                  Je vous retourne le compliment, de N.M. [2008-04-09 19:22:12]
                                                                                      Savez-vous ..., de Ion [2008-04-09 19:39:08]
                                                                                          Qualificatif méprisant ?, de N.M. [2008-04-09 21:33:31]
                                                                                              Perseverare ..., de Ion [2008-04-10 08:19:07]
                                                                                              Ici, saint Thomas..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-10 11:03:01]
                                                                                                  Certes, de Rémi [2008-04-10 11:06:09]
                                                                                                      A sa décharge..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-10 11:35:44]
                                                                                                  Pourquoi changer ?, de N.M. [2008-04-10 11:26:35]
                                                                                                      Pas d'accord., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-10 11:49:11]
                                                                                                          Mais justement..., de N.M. [2008-04-10 11:55:39]
                                                                                                              Bien entendu..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-10 12:08:41]
                                                                                      Je persiste, de Marchenoir [2008-04-09 20:56:21]
                                                                                          Justement si..., de N.M. [2008-04-09 21:21:53]
                                                                                              Comment ça, "justement si" ?!, de Marchenoir [2008-04-10 18:16:53]
                                                                                                  Déjà répondu, de N.M. [2008-04-10 19:14:27]
                                                                                                      "lunettes anti-romaines...", de Marchenoir [2008-04-11 00:15:53]
                                                                                                          Je m'étonne, de N.M. [2008-04-11 12:29:18]
                                                              Peut-être pourrez-vous m'éclairer ?, de Une Ame [2008-04-09 23:44:36]
                                                                  La soutane de N.M., de John DALY [2008-04-10 11:34:56]
                                                  Autorité de Quanta Cura, de N.M. [2008-04-08 11:09:50]
                                                      Tout est-il infaillible dans Quanta Cura ?, de olo [2008-04-08 19:29:20]
                                                          Hem !, de N.M. [2008-04-08 19:39:15]
                                                              Pour commencer..., de olo [2008-04-08 19:47:29]
                                                                  Hé bien..., de N.M. [2008-04-08 20:58:26]
                                                          Si ! cela fait partie des moeurs !, de jl d'André [2008-04-08 20:50:12]
                                              Oui, oui..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-08 12:07:41]
                                                  Le sophisme de Dom Basile, de jl d'André [2008-04-08 13:20:41]
                                                      Et comment diable..., de Etienne [2008-04-08 19:29:01]
                                                          Qui parle de mise à l'index ?, de jl d'André [2008-04-08 20:17:05]
                                                              Quelles sont donc ces conditions non remplies, de JacqHou [2008-04-22 20:49:02]
                                                                  l'obligation expressément formulée, de jl d'André [2008-04-22 21:11:21]
                              Négatif mon colonel !, de N.M. [2008-04-07 18:29:58]
                                  Mais si !, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 19:42:14]
                                      Mais non !, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 20:39:15]
                                          Ou alors,, de Rémi [2008-04-07 20:51:25]
                                              Flûte!, de Rémi [2008-04-07 20:55:08]
                                              Mauvais esprit.!, de Gentiloup [2008-04-07 21:40:04]
                                                  Pas du tout,, de Rémi [2008-04-07 21:58:57]
                                                  Oh, et grand merci, de Rémi [2008-04-07 22:15:20]
                                                      Ah!, de Gentiloup [2008-04-08 22:37:26]
                                          Autrement dit, de jl d'André [2008-04-07 20:58:42]
                                              Le hic..., de N.M. [2008-04-07 22:17:33]
                                                  Je vous ferais observer..., de jl d'André [2008-04-23 13:09:08]
                                                      Et pourtant si., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-23 13:12:31]
                                                          Quelle rigueur dans votre argumentation !, de jl d'André [2008-04-23 13:21:59]
                                                              Heu..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-23 13:40:12]
                                      Continuité dans le temps : première erreur, de N.M. [2008-04-07 21:35:06]
                                          Beaucoup trop long, de Gentiloup [2008-04-07 21:55:09]
                                              Beaucoup trop court !, de N.M. [2008-04-07 22:01:32]
                                                  Vous avez sans doute raison, de Gentiloup [2008-04-07 22:09:54]
                                                      Sans doute, de N.M. [2008-04-07 22:37:47]
                                                      Non non !, de Une Ame [2008-04-07 23:26:36]
                                              Dites chère amie,, de Rémi [2008-04-07 22:13:03]
                                          Quel afflux de citations !, de jl d'André [2008-04-09 22:04:48]
                                              La constance..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-10 09:51:34]
                                              C'est là chose nécessaire !, de N.M. [2008-04-10 10:19:22]
                                                  Les textes que vous citez..., de jl d'André [2008-04-10 21:04:09]
                                                      Vous faites erreur en beaucoup de choses !, de N.M. [2008-04-11 12:02:20]
                                                          Pas du tout !, de jl d'André [2008-04-11 13:58:17]
                                                              Oh que si !, de N.M. [2008-04-11 17:35:24]
                                                                  Question mal posée !, de jl d'André [2008-04-12 11:20:44]
                                                                      Bien au contraire !, de N.M. [2008-04-15 12:07:19]
                                                                          Tout cela n'a aucune importance !, de jl d'André [2008-04-15 21:26:41]
                                                                              Festival d'énormités de votre part, de N.M. [2008-04-15 22:57:28]
                                                                                  Le grand oubli de N.M., de John DALY [2008-04-16 11:13:50]
                                                                                      Le grand oubli de John DALY, de Une Ame [2008-04-16 11:48:49]
                                                                                          Arguments ?, de John DALY [2008-04-16 12:01:27]
                                                                                      Où l'invective et la dérision tiennent lieu d'ar [...], de jl d'André [2008-04-18 09:31:47]
                                                                                          Vous êtes pitoyable !, de N.M. [2008-04-18 09:40:21]
                                                                                              Non, je refuse les sophismes !, de jl d'André [2008-04-18 14:01:18]
                                                                                                  A M.d'André sur le sens du Canon lérinien, de Anaclet [2008-04-18 14:14:18]
                                                                                                      Ai-je jamais parlé du Canon lérinien ?, de jl d'André [2008-04-18 15:20:07]
                                                                                                          Indirectement., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-18 15:28:27]
                                                                                                          Ce n'est pas le problème cher Monsieur.., de Anaclet [2008-04-18 16:00:40]
                                                                                                              C'est exactement ce que je fais et qui m'est conte [...], de jl d'André [2008-04-19 14:04:38]
                                                                                                          Médiocre vous êtes..., de N.M. [2008-04-18 21:27:19]
                                                                                                  Hum..., de Etienne [2008-04-18 14:45:00]
                                                                                                  Alors commencez. par balayer devant votre porte !, de N.M. [2008-04-18 22:21:57]
                                                                                          Pour mieux vous recrédibiliser, Monsieur d'André, de John DALY [2008-04-18 16:13:26]
                                                                                              Merci !, de jl d'André [2008-04-20 15:36:12]
                                                                                              Compétence et crédibilité !, de jl d'André [2008-04-21 11:01:41]
                                                                                  Votre argumentation sédévacantiste ne convainc p [...], de jl d'André [2008-04-16 14:16:35]
                                                                                      Autre problème..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-16 15:08:49]
                                                                                      Bêtise ou mauvaise foi de votre part ?, de N.M. [2008-04-16 17:56:50]
                                                                                          Mauvaise foi, vous dites mauvaise foi !, de jl d'André [2008-04-16 21:22:06]
                                                                                              Hé bien oui : la vôtre !, de N.M. [2008-04-17 11:49:16]
                                                                                                  Ah bon !, de jl d'André [2008-04-17 21:31:27]
                                                                                                      Il en reste ! , de Une Ame [2008-04-18 00:24:47]
                                                                                                          Entièrement d'accord., de Eymerich [2008-04-18 09:40:52]
                                                                                                          Bien sûr !, de jl d'André [2008-04-18 14:36:13]
                                                                                                              Vous avez raison..., de N.M. [2008-04-18 22:32:20]
                                                                                                                  Si je comprends bien votre raisonnement..., de jl d'André [2008-04-19 15:00:22]
                                                                                                                      Allez..., de N.M. [2008-04-19 18:36:54]
                                                                                                                          Merci, de Ion [2008-04-19 19:14:15]
                                                                                                                              Oui,, de Rémi [2008-04-19 19:40:21]
                                                                                                      Sans doute..., de N.M. [2008-04-18 09:18:19]
                                                                                                          Vous jouez sur les mots !, de jl d'André [2008-04-18 15:15:47]
                                                                                                              A propos du MOU..., de Anaclet [2008-04-18 15:44:34]
                                                                                                              Je n'oserais pas en face d'un tel expert que vous, de N.M. [2008-04-18 21:50:35]
                                                                                                  Enseignement constant !, de jl d'André [2008-04-22 20:27:07]
                                      Continuité dans le lieu : deuxième erreur, de N.M. [2008-04-07 21:54:08]
                                          Mais si la dispersion a de l'importance, de jl d'André [2008-04-09 09:21:08]
                                              Drôle de "collégialité" !, de N.M. [2008-04-09 11:28:19]
                                                  collégialité, de jl d'André [2008-04-10 08:54:19]
                                                      L'Abbé Dulac..., de N.M. [2008-04-10 10:42:51]
                                                          A anachronisme, anachronisme et demi, de jl d'André [2008-04-10 14:32:50]
                                                              Bof !, de N.M. [2008-04-10 14:58:50]
                                              Donc..., de Etienne [2008-04-09 13:33:38]
                                              Désolé, de Une Ame [2008-04-09 14:21:55]
                      Mince !, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 17:17:01]
                          Question à M. d'André, de Rémi [2008-04-07 18:26:27]
                              Hé !, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 20:42:28]
                                  Le contexte confirme, de Gentiloup [2008-04-07 22:05:42]
                                      Oui, oui..., de Athanasios D. [2008-04-08 10:42:30]
                              C'est voulu !, de jl d'André [2008-04-08 20:31:55]
                                  Ah ?, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-08 22:11:12]
                  Vatican II en français le titre, de Halleluia [2008-04-07 17:00:28]
                      En bref :, de Athanasios D. [2008-04-07 17:11:41]
                      [réponse], de Gentiloup [2008-04-07 22:19:02]
      Facile !, de Griffon [2008-04-07 19:10:00]
      C'était écrit, de Maïe [2008-04-18 22:37:35]