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Un peu court... Imprimer
Auteur : Vianney
Sujet : Un peu court...
Date : 2010-03-02 08:27:11

...car les détournements sont autant le fait de Vatican II que de ses héritiers : je viens encore de le rappeler à propos de Dignitatis Humanæ.

A propos de la barque de Pierre, un auteur qui semble avoir vos faveurs ne se prive pourtant pas de remettre en question l’enseignement de Pie IX et de saint Pie X :

Il nous faudrait nous souvenir, en plus des faits du Moyen Age et de l'Antiquité, aussi de ceux plus proches de nous, de ceux que l'on peut percevoir immédiatement comme une déformation : en particulier, la réaction chrétienne exprimée au XIXe et au début du XXe siècle, dans le Syllabus de Pie IX et durant le pontificat de Pie X.

Source : J. Ratzinger, Principes de la théologie catholique, p. 296-297 (ouvrage réédité récemment avec l’accord de son auteur).


A en juger par ce comportement, je ne m’écarte pas des “principes de la théologie catholique” en contestant Vatican II. D’autant que, selon Mgr Charles Journet (L’Église du Verbe Incarné, tome II, p. 840), des théologiens sérieux abonderaient plutôt dans mon sens :

Cajetan : “Quant à l'axiome : où est le pape, là est l'Église, il vaut lorsque le pape se comporte comme pape et chef de l'Église : autrement, ni l'Église n'est en lui, ni lui en l'Église.”

Suarez : “le pape pourrait être schismatique, par exemple en tentant d'excommunier tout l'Église, ou en renversant tous les rites traditionnels


...ce que fit précisément Paul VI dans les années qui suivirent Vatican II.

V.


La discussion

 Espagne : journée noire pour la Vie !, de Cristo [2010-02-25 13:10:41]
      Vatican II est responsable !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2010-02-25 14:27:38]
          Question concernant la modification du Fuero., de Meneau [2010-02-25 17:06:34]
              Précision, de Meneau [2010-02-25 17:09:48]
                  C'est bien le St Siège qui a obligé, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2010-02-25 17:41:24]
                      C’est en effet de Paul VI..., de Vianney [2010-02-25 18:21:22]
                          Merci cher Vianney, de N.M. [2010-02-25 18:52:46]
                              Votre référence est beaucoup plus sûre..., de Vianney [2010-02-25 20:12:00]
                                  Merci !, de Meneau [2010-02-27 00:42:08]
                                      Une question de cohérence, de Vianney [2010-02-27 16:26:06]
                                      Des indications beaucoup plus précises, de Vianney [2010-02-27 17:33:19]
                                          Encore merci !, de Meneau [2010-02-27 18:54:25]
                                              Cela semble pourtant suffisant, de Anton [2010-02-27 19:02:48]
                                                  La parole est à la défense..., de Vianney [2010-02-27 19:16:27]
                                                      Pour faire passer, de Anton [2010-02-27 19:44:39]
                                                          En somme, merci!, de Gentiloup [2010-02-27 19:49:55]
                                                          la succession, de Fioretti [2010-02-27 19:57:50]
                                                          Vous avez eu raison..., de Vianney [2010-02-27 20:37:53]
                                                              Pourtant c'est bien en vous lisant., de Anton [2010-02-27 21:27:38]
                                                                  Quand bien même..., de Vianney [2010-02-27 22:14:47]
                                                                      Cher Vianney, de Anton [2010-02-27 23:13:59]
                                                                          Votre non-réponse à ma question..., de Vianney [2010-02-28 07:13:03]
                                                                              mais Vianney , vous savez bien, de pyo [2010-02-28 07:50:30]
                                                                                  Mettez-vous à sa place..., de Vianney [2010-02-28 09:25:21]
                                                                              Mais comment faites vous., de Anton [2010-02-28 13:18:35]
                                                                                  Comme vous dites si bien..., de Vianney [2010-02-28 14:37:30]
                                                                                       Maintenant comment allez vous prétendre, de Anton [2010-02-28 15:03:27]
                                                                                          Vous jouez au rugby ?, de Scribe [2010-02-28 15:09:21]
                                                                                              Vous connaissez les règles., de Anton [2010-02-28 15:27:53]
                                                                                                  Quand justifierez-vous ce que vous avancez ?, de Scribe [2010-02-28 17:34:15]
                                                                                                      Je croyais que c'était à ceux , de Anton [2010-02-28 21:59:20]
                                                                                                          N'importe quoi, de Meneau [2010-03-01 00:07:43]
                                                                                                              Vous en connaissez une autre, de Anton [2010-03-01 13:40:47]
                                                                                                                  Ce n'est pas la quantité qui fait la qualité, de Meneau [2010-03-01 16:29:30]
                                                                                                                      Il me semble que l'abbé Lucien, de Anton [2010-03-01 18:20:01]
                                                                                                  Dites plutôt..., de Vianney [2010-02-28 17:48:35]
                                                                                                      Il est évident, de Anton [2010-03-01 13:58:34]
                                                                                                          “Hors contexte”, de Vianney [2010-03-01 14:42:58]
                                                                                                              Essayons d'être clair et précis...., de origenius [2010-03-01 14:55:41]
                                                                                                                  Je vous renvoie à la discussion..., de Vianney [2010-03-01 15:50:29]
                                                                                                                      Le vatican ayant le droit de réprimer, de Anton [2010-03-01 15:56:25]
                                                                                                                          Pas le Vatican..., de Vianney [2010-03-01 16:27:19]
                                                                                                                              Luther?, de Anton [2010-03-01 18:02:53]
                                                                                                                                  Mon cas n’est pas bien grave alors..., de Vianney [2010-03-01 18:55:21]
                                                                                                                                      Ah ce bon St Paul !, de Halleluia [2010-03-01 22:56:19]
                                                                                                                                          Pauvre, de Paxtecum [2010-03-02 00:14:35]
                                                                                                                                              Un peu court..., de Vianney [2010-03-02 08:27:11]
                                                                                                                                                  A cause de cet article :, de Halleluia [2010-03-02 20:55:28]
                                                                                                                                                      Je vous comprends..., de Vianney [2010-03-02 21:21:55]
                                                                                                                                                      Oh relevez, de Paxtecum [2010-03-03 00:35:28]
                                                                                                                                                  J'entends bien, de Paxtecum [2010-03-03 01:36:23]
                                                                                                                                                      Il n’est pas question..., de Vianney [2010-03-03 08:13:15]
                                                                                                                                                          Pardon?, de Anton [2010-03-03 11:19:39]
                                                                                                                                                              À votre service..., de Vianney [2010-03-03 14:30:07]
                                                                                                                                                                  Vous ne mélangez pas un peu les notions, de Anton [2010-03-04 09:41:53]
                                                                                                                                                                      Complément de réflexion...., de origenius [2010-03-04 11:07:27]
                                                                                                                                                                          Complétude et abracadabritude, de Gentiloup [2010-03-04 11:30:20]
                                                                                                                                                                              Le Christ, époux... vous dit le contraire , de Glycéra [2010-03-04 11:43:43]
                                                                                                                                                                                  Cela ne concerne pas la doctrine..., de Vianney [2010-03-04 12:14:36]
                                                                                                                                                                                      Vous jouez à quoi, Vianney ?????, de origenius [2010-03-04 12:26:04]
                                                                                                                                                                                          Simple mise au point..., de Vianney [2010-03-04 14:19:58]
                                                                                                                                                                                              Simple erreur de lecture ?, de Glycéra [2010-03-04 14:28:29]
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Relisez le catéchisme du concile de Trente, de Vianney [2010-03-04 15:09:32]
                                                                                                                                                                                                      Bien sûr, mais..., de Etienne [2010-03-04 15:37:53]
                                                                                                                                                                                                          Oui, mais là on se place sur un tout autre plan.. [...], de Vianney [2010-03-04 16:06:32]
                                                                                                                                                                                                              Hmmm..., de Etienne [2010-03-04 16:54:31]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Ce n’est pas impossible, remarquez..., de Vianney [2010-03-04 17:43:39]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                      Est-ce bien possible........, de origenius [2010-03-06 11:05:59]
                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Un bon conseil de Chateaubriand..., de Vianney [2010-03-20 17:13:22]
                                                                                                                                                                                              Vous n'avez strictement rien compris..., de origenius [2010-03-04 14:30:26]
                                                                                                                                                                                                  sauf que, de Scribe [2010-03-04 14:34:50]
                                                                                                                                                                                                  Seigneur! Hâtez-vous de nous secourir., de Castille [2010-03-04 16:13:08]
                                                                                                                                                                      Mais non, mais non..., de Vianney [2010-03-04 12:07:36]
                                                                                                                                                                          Le veau d'or, de Anton [2010-03-04 13:29:56]
                                                                                                                              Choquant !..., de origenius [2010-03-01 18:14:39]
                                                                                                                                  Seigneur!!! Vianney, de pyo [2010-03-01 18:33:28]
                                                                                                                                      En ce moment..., de Vianney [2010-03-01 19:41:49]
                                                                                                                                          Le Chef c'est le Christ, de Anton [2010-03-01 19:46:26]
                                                                                                                                              Mais le chef ne change pas sa doctrine, de Vianney [2010-03-01 20:23:09]
                                                                                                                                                  Elle n'a jamais changé, de Anton [2010-03-02 13:26:13]
                                                                                                                                                      Et c’est reparti..., de Vianney [2010-03-02 14:40:30]
                                                                                                                                  Les citations sont précisément là..., de Vianney [2010-03-01 19:32:25]
                                                                                                                      Je vous renvoie à mes 2 questions..SVP..., de origenius [2010-03-01 16:03:28]
                                                                                                                          Je vous redonne les mêmes réponses, de Vianney [2010-03-01 16:22:57]
                                                                                                                      Le droit naturel au règne de Dieu sur les nations, de Gentiloup [2010-03-01 18:51:10]
                                                                                                                          Encore on tronque, mais conforme à DH, de Anton [2010-03-01 19:34:12]
                                                                                                                              C'est vous qui tronquez!, de Gentiloup [2010-03-01 19:45:18]
                                                                                                                                  Encore un petit effort..., de origenius [2010-03-01 19:59:42]
                                                                                                                                      Je dois préciser en effet!, de Gentiloup [2010-03-01 23:04:37]
                                                                                                                                  Pas tout à fait, de Anton [2010-03-02 12:17:24]
                                                                                                                                      A propos du Temple, mon cher Anton.., de origenius [2010-03-02 13:38:40]
                                                                                                              Ce n'est pas Dieu qui est en cause, de Anton [2010-03-01 15:30:00]
                                              Non, pour l’instant..., de Vianney [2010-02-27 19:03:29]
      Avortement autorisé depuis les années 80, de Edouard R [2010-02-25 18:34:01]
          En France aussi, au même moment..., de jejomau [2010-02-25 20:13:41]