Les archives du Forum Catholique
Forum | Documents | Liens | Q.F.P. | Oremus

Les archives du Forum Catholique

JUILLET 2003 A MARS 2011

Retour à la liste des messages | Rechercher

Afficher le fil complet

Bien qu'en effet Imprimer
Auteur : Rémi
Sujet : Bien qu'en effet
Date : 2006-12-16 17:05:24

cette loi ait été ajoutée en raison des problèmes posés par la Chine communiste, elle avait portée universelle:

Lettre Encyclique Ad Apostolorum Principis



43. We are aware that those who thus belittle obedience in order to justify themselves with regard to those functions which they have unrighteously assumed, defend their position by recalling a usage which prevailed in ages past. Yet everyone sees that all ecclesiastical discipline is overthrown if it is in any way lawful for one to restore arrangements which are no longer valid because the supreme authority of the Church long ago decreed otherwise. In no sense do they excuse their way of acting by appealing to another custom, and they indisputably prove that they follow this line deliberately in order to escape from the discipline which now prevails and which they ought to be obeying.

44. We mean that discipline which has been established not only for China and the regions recently enlightened by the light of the Gospel, but for the whole Church, a discipline which takes its sanction from that universal and supreme power of caring for, ruling, and governing which our Lord granted to the successors in the office of St. Peter the Apostle.

45. Well known are the terms of Vatican Council's solemn definition: "Relying on the open testimony of the Scriptures and abiding by the wise and clear decrees both of our predecessors, the Roman Pontiffs, and the general Councils, We renew the definition of the Ecumenical Council of Florence, by virtue of which all the faithful must believe that 'the Holy Apostolic See and the Roman Pontiff hold primacy over the whole world, and the Roman Pontiff himself is the Successor of the blessed Peter and continues to be the true Vicar of Christ and head of the whole Church, the father and teacher of all Christians, and to him is the blessed Peter our Lord Jesus Christ committed the full power of caring for, ruling and governing the Universal Church....'

46. "We teach, . . . We declare that the Roman Church by the Providence of God holds the primacy of ordinary power over all others, and that this power of jurisdiction of the Roman Pontiff, which is truly episcopal, is immediate. Toward it, the pastors and the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both individually and collectively, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in matters which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which concern the discipline and government of the Church spread throughout the whole world, in such a way that once the unity of communion and the profession of the same Faith has been preserved with the Roman Pontiff, there is one flock of the Church of Christ under one supreme shepherd. This is the teaching of the Catholic truth from which no one can depart without loss of faith and salvation."[17]

47. From what We have said, it follows that no authority whatsoever, save that which is proper to the Supreme Pastor, can render void the canonical appointment granted to any bishop; that no person or group, whether of priests or of laymen, can claim the right of nominating bishops; that no one can lawfully confer episcopal consecration unless he has received the mandate of the Apostolic See[18]

48. Consequently, if consecration of this kind is being done contrary to all right and law, and by this crime the unity of the Church is being seriously attacked, an excommunication reserved specialissimo modo to the Apostolic See has been established which is automatically incurred by the consecrator and by anyone who has received consecration irresponsibly conferred.[19]



17. Vatican Council, session IV, chap. 3; Coll. Lac., Vll, p.484.

18. Canon 953.

19. Decree of Sacred Congregation of the Holy Office, April 9, 1951: AAS 43 (1951) pp. 217-18.



Toutefois, cette loi ne s'applique à la situation dont nous parlons que dans la mesure où elle est reprise par le CIC actuellement en vigueur, ce qui est bien le cas, et que si même Pie XII ne lui avait pas donné valeur universelle, le Code actuel le fait clairement.

L'"argument chinois" ne porte pas.


La discussion

 Un manifeste en faveur de la Messe tridentine (Fig [...], de Credidimus Caritati [2006-12-16 11:18:34]
      Les nouvelles sont fraîches !, de Archange [2006-12-16 11:22:40]
          Et alors ??? Chacun son rythme ..., de Credidimus Caritati [2006-12-16 11:26:44]
              Ce soir à Lyon c'est chacun son rythme..., de Brice [2006-12-16 19:40:53]
      Excellent !!, de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 12:27:59]
          Et trois de mes professeurs, de La Mouette [2006-12-16 12:53:25]
              Précisions pour Bigor, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 12:59:49]
              Agatha Christie Indult, de Nemo [2006-12-16 13:24:48]
                  voici la traduction française de cette lettre ain [...], de Le Baptistère [2006-12-16 14:14:10]
                  Agatha Christie ou Yehudi Menuhin indult ? parmi [...], de Halleluia [2006-12-16 15:36:09]
                      je ne crois pas, de Le Baptistère [2006-12-16 16:02:22]
      "Jean-Paul II Le Grand ?", de Halleluia [2006-12-16 13:01:48]
          Chère Halleluia !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 13:05:37]
              Mon post est sorti spontanément, de Halleluia [2006-12-16 15:11:35]
                  Deux petites choses:, de Rémi [2006-12-16 15:31:43]
          Ha! Ca énerve hein?, de Rémi [2006-12-16 13:06:20]
          Ils veulent peut-être dire Le Grand , de Maïe [2006-12-16 13:19:16]
              Hé oui..., de Rémi [2006-12-16 13:20:45]
              Un géant..., de Rémi [2006-12-16 13:23:10]
              Mais vous alors Pélerin pas voyageur, de JacqHou [2006-12-16 14:32:09]
                  Grand Saint-Joseph, modèle des hommes, de Maïe [2006-12-16 15:32:42]
                      Sheir Maie , de JacqHou [2006-12-16 17:03:52]
                          Benoît XVI a été baptisé, de Maïe [2006-12-17 01:01:39]
                              Non il ne manque pas , de JacqHou [2006-12-17 02:52:50]
                                  Ce sont aussi vos amis, et même vos frères, de Maïe [2006-12-18 05:44:43]
          Halte à l'hypocrisie, de JacqHou [2006-12-16 14:26:04]
              N'importe quoi !!, de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 16:00:38]
                  ah?, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 16:03:48]
                      Comme avec le chocolat?, de Maïe [2006-12-16 16:11:09]
                          comme pour l'avortement..., de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 16:19:19]
                              Non-lieu sur un schisme !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 16:30:59]
                                  je suis en total , de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 16:38:29]
                                      Monsieur l'abbé !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 16:46:44]
                                          Pouvez-vous nous dire, de Halleluia [2006-12-18 01:11:46]
                                      Et pourtant, M. l'abbé !!!, de Sursum corda [2006-12-16 17:06:53]
                                          mais croyez-vous, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 18:03:36]
                                              Monsieur l'abbé !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 18:16:11]
                                                  que voulez-vous, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 18:24:30]
                                                      La Sainte Vierge, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 18:27:46]
                                                          Et depuis, de Rémi [2006-12-16 19:45:15]
                                                      Oh non, vous n'êtes pas un affreux, de Halleluia [2006-12-18 01:20:29]
                                              Cher Monsieur l'abbé, si vous saviez..., de Sursum corda [2006-12-16 18:52:01]
                                  Bien qu'en effet, de Rémi [2006-12-16 17:05:24]
                                      Bien sûr !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2006-12-16 17:12:44]
                                          Non, je ne peux rien dire, de Rémi [2006-12-16 17:20:12]
                      Et oui mais..., de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 16:28:23]
                          Qui plus est..., de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 16:31:53]
                              tout à fait, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 16:36:20]
                                  non et non, de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 16:40:33]
                                      si et si, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 16:45:43]
                                          Gloups..., de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 16:54:39]
                                              mal lisu, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 17:50:46]
                                                  oui, de Keyser Sozé [2006-12-16 18:27:45]
                                                      je ne crois pas, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 18:35:04]
                          le décret, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 16:32:22]
                              Monsieur l'Abbé!, de Halleluia [2006-12-16 19:21:31]
                                  désolé de vous dire, de abbé F.H. [2006-12-16 19:37:49]
                  Cher Keyser, de JacqHou [2006-12-16 17:26:20]
          Il y a ceux qui... et ceux qui..., de Ambroisine [2006-12-16 14:39:45]
              Bien dit., de Rémi [2006-12-16 14:44:40]
                  Je vois qu'on tire à nouveau, de Clayve [2006-12-16 15:23:27]
                      Heu..., de Rémi [2006-12-16 15:36:46]
                          Je ne faisais pas, de Clayve [2006-12-16 15:47:02]
                              Bien reçu, de Rémi [2006-12-16 15:51:40]
                      Point de vue, de AVV-VVK [2006-12-16 15:48:42]
                      Ambroisine et clavye, de JacqHou [2006-12-16 17:13:46]
                          Offrez-moi le chocolat ..., de Ambroisine [2006-12-16 17:17:32]