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Rupture Imprimer
Auteur : Aigle
Sujet : Rupture
Date : 2010-02-14 09:40:25

On tient là cher Pétrarque un bel exemple de l'hérmeneutique de rupture : celle-ci est promue non seulement par certains courants romains (le cardinal Kasper par exemple quand il évqoue l'itinéraire commun au lieu du retour) mais aussi par la FSSPX...

Dans les deux cas on oublie que le successeur de saint Pierre ne peut être dans l'erreur en matière de Foi et de moeurs...

Alors je vous propose d'éviter d'adhérer aux interprétations les plus choquantes du magistère mais - conformément à la volonté explicite du Pape Benoît XVI - de promouvoir systématiquement une reception de cet enseignement qui soit conforme à la Tradition bimillénaire de l'Eglise.

S'agissant de l'oecumenisme, rapportez vous simplement à la déclaration "Dominus Jesus" de 2000 qui rappelle bien qu'il n'y qu'une seule Eglise du Christ : l'Eglise catholique, apolstolique et romaine.

Le but de l'oecuménisme est le retour à l'unité par le retour de tous les chrétiens (individuellement ou en groupe) dans cette unique Eglise. Toute autre interprétation du magistère des papes et des conciles est contraire à la doctrine catholique issue de la Tradition et confirmée expressement par les papes Jean-Paul II et en dernier lieu Benoît XVI.


La discussion

 Quelle surprise : Saint Pie X approuvait l'oecumé [...], de Philippeg [2010-02-14 03:17:34]
      non !, de jejomau [2010-02-14 08:55:50]
          Prier pour l'unité, de L'enchanteur [2010-02-14 09:57:28]
              le terme "subsitste" est une invention p [...], de FilsDeMarie [2010-02-14 11:06:25]
                  Subsister’ signifie la perpétuelle continuité  [...], de Maximilien [2010-02-14 17:10:08]
          [réponse], de Lux [2010-02-14 11:25:30]
      Non !, de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 09:18:31]
          non, l'oecumenisme avant , de pyo [2010-02-14 09:28:42]
              Pardon Pyo..., de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 12:47:43]
                  non,Pétrarque! à notre amie, de pyo [2010-02-14 13:21:37]
                      Tout va bien..., de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 17:37:07]
          Rupture, de Aigle [2010-02-14 09:40:25]
              Je n'adhère que très partiellement..., de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 12:59:38]
                  Franchise, de Lux [2010-02-14 14:03:10]
                      Votre opinion est dangereuse, de Aigle [2010-02-14 18:56:22]
                          Votre opinion est très dangereuse, de Scribe [2010-02-14 19:03:39]
                              Vous croyez ?, de Aigle [2010-02-14 19:11:06]
                                  Non !, de Scribe [2010-02-14 19:15:19]
                                      J'ajoute, de Meneau [2010-02-14 19:20:05]
                                      Dogme ou pas dogme ?, de Aigle [2010-02-14 19:21:42]
                                          Mgr Gherardini a récemment répondu à votre obj [...], de Ennemond [2010-02-14 19:26:04]
                                              c'est une opinion, de Aigle [2010-02-14 19:36:34]
                                                  Si les opinions sont libres..., de Ennemond [2010-02-14 19:38:34]
                                                  Wikipedia, de Aigle [2010-02-14 19:39:18]
                                                      Un oubli de taille !, de Ennemond [2010-02-14 19:42:56]
                                                          Un autre :, de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 20:08:18]
                                                              Question..., de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 21:15:56]
                                                                  Ben..., de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 21:30:42]
                                                                      C'est amusant..., de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 21:35:53]
                                                                          Allons, allons..., de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 21:43:08]
                                                                              Si vous voulez..., de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 21:51:09]
                                                                                  Je leur répondrai que..., de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 22:36:02]
                                                              Pourquoi pas ?, de Ennemond [2010-02-14 22:40:11]
                                                                  Dans ce fil..., de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 23:02:45]
                                                                      pourquoi? le Scribe vous manque, de pyo [2010-02-15 07:49:28]
                                                                      snober, de Ennemond [2010-02-15 09:20:18]
                                                                          Pas si vite !, de Athanasios D. [2010-02-15 11:01:21]
                                                                              Même sans Mgr Gherardini..., de Gentiloup [2010-02-15 12:59:01]
                                                      Non, mais vous vous moquez de nous ???, de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 21:08:42]
                                                  Opinion ?, de Scribe [2010-02-14 19:40:04]
                                          Au moins "un hommage religieux, interne et ex [...], de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 20:52:55]
                                              Impasse ?, de Scribe [2010-02-14 20:58:39]
                                                  Pour vous en sortir..., de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 21:28:06]
                                                      Cela ne change pas grand chose, de Scribe [2010-02-14 22:22:32]
                                                          Vous parliez..., de Athanasios D. [2010-02-14 22:39:34]
                                                              Vous êtes en train, de Scribe [2010-02-15 08:45:31]
                                              Ah !....., de origenius [2010-02-14 21:21:24]
                                  Si mon opinion est dangereuse, c'est dans un autre [...], de Lux [2010-02-16 16:15:14]
                                      Vous aimez le danger ?, de Griffon [2010-02-16 17:08:29]
                                          Du calme !, de Lux [2010-02-16 19:35:09]
                          Mieux dit que par moi, de Paxtecum [2010-02-14 19:15:16]
                          De grâce, Aigle, lâchez-nous !, de Pétrarque [2010-02-14 21:03:22]
                              Le relativisme a de l'endurance, il faut le savoir, de Castille [2010-02-15 09:54:39]
              Ouais, de Meneau [2010-02-14 13:19:45]
          Pire moment ?, de Thomas [2010-02-16 17:22:50]
      Surprise pour vous, chère Madame..., de Vianney [2010-02-14 09:22:21]
          Bravo Vianney !, de Jean-Paul PARFU [2010-02-14 09:55:56]
          Conversion des hérétiques, de ptk [2010-02-14 17:05:53]
      Madame ,, de Miserere [2010-02-14 09:51:55]
          Et en avant ...., de Philippeg [2010-02-14 11:41:22]
              Euh !, de Miserere [2010-02-14 17:16:15]
                  Suis d'accord avec votre épouse, de Philippeg [2010-02-14 21:27:22]
      Oui, le vrai, celui qui élève quand il rapproche [...], de Glycera [2010-02-14 10:08:20]
          De même !, de Miserere [2010-02-14 10:25:09]
      Enfin une critique constructive contre la FSSPX !, de Pellicanus [2010-02-14 10:59:56]
          Eh, cher Ennemond ! Message urgent !, de Pellicanus [2010-02-14 11:16:29]
      orthographe, histoire et ecclésiologie, de Luc Perrin [2010-02-14 14:06:23]
      St-Pie X, pape moderniste ?, de Scribe [2010-02-14 14:43:53]
          salut !, de jejomau [2010-02-14 15:44:10]
              Ben voyons, de Meneau [2010-02-14 16:25:43]
                  Justement non, de Anton [2010-02-14 16:35:45]
                      Mais mon bon monsieur !, de Meneau [2010-02-16 00:17:43]
                          Il ne s'agit pas d'insultes, de Anton [2010-02-16 00:25:46]
                          Enfin aprés avoir lu, le çà, de Anton [2010-02-16 02:33:09]
                  oui, de Philippeg [2010-02-14 21:30:21]
              Si benêts que cela les "pidistes"?, de Gentiloup [2010-02-14 17:23:35]
                  Un grand bémol ! , de Halleluia [2010-02-15 00:35:52]
                      Un grand bémol!, de Gentiloup [2010-02-15 12:36:55]
                          Il est étrange que vous n'envisagiez pas la possi [...], de Anton [2010-02-15 16:03:50]
                              Monsieur le donneur de leçons, de Gentiloup [2010-02-15 17:15:05]
                                  Je vous en prie., de Anton [2010-02-15 21:57:52]
                                      Pour Anton, de Meneau [2010-02-16 00:19:20]
                                          Je vous ai répondu plus haut, de Anton [2010-02-16 01:46:51]
                                              pourquoi mettre" cordialement, Anton, de pyo [2010-02-16 08:27:51]
                                                  Je devrais m'excuser dites vous, de Anton [2010-02-16 09:50:02]
                                                      Eh bien, dans le même registre, de Gentiloup [2010-02-16 17:24:10]
                                                          Sourire, personne, de Anton [2010-02-16 17:29:06]
                                                              L'ancrage dans l'insulte, de Gentiloup [2010-02-16 18:21:48]
                                              Très drôle, de Meneau [2010-02-16 14:07:29]
                                                  C'est pourtant écrit ici., de Anton [2010-02-16 16:47:03]
                                                      Je souhaiterai, mon cher Anton..., de origenius [2010-02-16 17:14:29]
                                                      CQFD, de Meneau [2010-02-16 21:27:26]
                                                          Expliquez nous donc, de Anton [2010-02-16 21:52:11]
                                                              Faites un effort, de Meneau [2010-02-16 22:08:06]
                                                                  Pas de cabrioles entre nous..., de Anton [2010-02-16 22:23:07]
                                                                      Autre exemple puisque vous ne voulez pas comprendr [...], de Meneau [2010-02-16 22:36:43]
                                                                          Vous fuyez la question, de Anton [2010-02-16 22:55:10]
                                                                              Effectivement......, de origenius [2010-02-16 23:08:47]
                                                                              Vous ne voulez pas comprendre les réponses, nuanc [...], de Meneau [2010-02-16 23:32:12]
                                                                                  Vous fuyez toujours jouant sur les mots, de Anton [2010-02-17 00:53:41]
                                                                                      Toujours pas compris apparemment, de Meneau [2010-02-17 21:44:43]
                                                                                          Si vous écrivez cela, de Anton [2010-02-17 22:04:59]
                                                                                              Rassurez vous, de Meneau [2010-02-17 22:16:17]
                                                                                                  Rassurez vous aussi, de Anton [2010-02-17 22:41:39]
                                                                                                      Il est interdit de rouler à plus de 110 en ville., de Meneau [2010-02-17 22:54:31]
                                                                                                          Jusqu'à ce moment, de Anton [2010-02-18 03:41:16]
                                                                                      Laisser la liberté de conscience à quelqu'un, de Halleluia [2010-02-19 01:33:20]
                                                                                          Cher , de Anton [2010-02-19 03:43:31]
                                                                                              Voilà comment je comprends le texte , de Halleluia [2010-02-21 03:22:55]
                                                                                                  S'il faut écrire:, de Anton [2010-02-21 16:33:05]
                                                                                                      je continue mon explication, de Halleluia [2010-02-21 18:38:30]
                                                                                                          pas tout à fait d'accord, de Paxtecum [2010-02-21 19:28:11]
                                                                                  A force de raconter des balivernes, de Anton [2010-02-17 01:09:26]
                                                                                      Précisions, de Anton [2010-02-17 01:45:23]
                                                                                          Au sujet de la précision, de Meneau [2010-02-17 22:04:51]
                                                                                              C'est un beau mensonge politicien, de Anton [2010-02-17 22:09:41]
                                                                                                  Faux. Renseignez-vous, de Meneau [2010-02-17 22:21:49]
                                                                                                      Mais là encore, de Anton [2010-02-17 22:33:51]
                                                                                                          Fin, de Meneau [2010-02-17 22:39:25]
                                                                                                              Réponse brève ...., de origenius [2010-02-17 23:14:03]
                                                                                                              Cela ne peut l'être., de Anton [2010-02-18 03:58:48]
                                                                                                                  Pour essayer de me faire comprendre, de Meneau [2010-02-18 14:57:55]
                                                                                                                      donc si je comprends bien, de Paxtecum [2010-02-18 15:51:38]
                                                                                                                          Empêcher la diffusion de l’erreur..., de Vianney [2010-02-18 16:43:24]
                                                                                      Balivernes ?, de Vianney [2010-02-17 06:21:44]
                                                                                          Cher Vianney, de Anton [2010-02-17 22:23:42]
                                                                                              Relisez donc Pie IX, de Vianney [2010-02-18 05:03:24]
                                                                                                  Je lis la loi catholique, de Anton [2010-02-18 09:04:34]
                                                                                                      La question de la conscience erronée, de Vianney [2010-02-18 09:49:03]
                                                                                                          Mêmes remarques...., de origenius [2010-02-18 10:37:48]
                                                                                                              C’est au niveau des principes..., de Vianney [2010-02-18 11:38:35]
                                                                                                              ah bon! les musulmans n'ont pas, de pyo [2010-02-18 12:25:08]
                                                                                                                  Raisonnements ?......, de origenius [2010-02-18 12:49:10]
                                                                                                                      Qu'y-a-t-il de fondamentalement "commun" [...], de Gentiloup [2010-02-18 13:10:21]
                                                                                                                          Décidément ma chère....., de origenius [2010-02-18 13:36:53]
                                                                                                                              Décidément..., de Gentiloup [2010-02-18 14:02:19]
                                                                                                                          Est-ce avec de tels exemples que vous pourrez les  [...], de Glycera [2010-02-18 14:30:29]
                                                                                                                              Madame...., de Meneau [2010-02-18 15:10:13]
                                                                                                                                  Pouvez-vous expliquer ceci ?, de Glycera [2010-02-18 15:32:24]
                                                                                                                                      Bien sûr je peux expliquer. La réponse est non, de Meneau [2010-02-18 15:36:50]
                                                                                                                                          Et avant la naissance de Jésus, aucune vertu ?, de Glycera [2010-02-18 15:48:22]
                                                                                                                                              â€œTous les justes de l’Ancien Testament..., de Vianney [2010-02-18 16:01:52]
                                                                                                                                                  Vous répondez de leur salut certifié, mais non s [...], de Glycera [2010-02-18 16:17:24]
                                                                                                                                                      Il faut distinguer..., de Vianney [2010-02-18 17:00:54]
                                                                                                                                          C'est ce qu'ils appellent "la part de vérità[...], de Castille [2010-02-18 17:58:28]
                                                                                                                              Merci Madame..., de Griffon [2010-02-18 19:40:33]
                                                                                                          Oui un état catholique, de Anton [2010-02-19 04:01:39]
                                                                                                              Visionnaire..., de Vianney [2010-02-19 07:46:24]
                                                                                                                  Pas comme cela?, de Anton [2010-02-19 17:39:39]
                                                                                                                      Contre sens, de Meneau [2010-02-19 21:56:36]
                                                                                                                          Votre contresens pas le mien, de Anton [2010-02-20 00:07:19]
                                                                                                                              Lisez donc ce qui est écrit !, de Meneau [2010-02-20 00:28:55]
                                                                                                                                  la clef n'est-elle pas "définition de fausse [...], de Glycera [2010-02-20 10:54:57]
                                                                                                                                      [réponse], de Meneau [2010-02-20 15:24:24]
                                                                                                                                          Il n'y a pas antinomie..., de Glycera [2010-02-20 19:19:07]
                                                                                                                                              Mais, de Meneau [2010-02-20 20:05:44]
                                                                                                                                              Léon XIII ne limite pas..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 20:23:30]
                                                                                                                                                  L'âne qui ne veut pas boire..., de Glycera [2010-02-20 21:44:18]
                                                                                                                                                      Le coup de pied de l’âne..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 22:44:02]
                                                                                                                                                          Merci pour le rappel de cette citation!, de Gentiloup [2010-02-21 00:58:55]
                                                                                                                                                          Peut-être que Jaurès, de Anton [2010-02-21 16:23:41]
                                                                                                                                                              Quelqu’un ici a-t-il suggéré..., de Vianney [2010-02-21 17:28:02]
                                                                                                                                                                  sauf que César, de Paxtecum [2010-02-21 17:54:59]
                                                                                                                                                                  Pour Anton et Vianney...., de origenius [2010-02-21 17:56:05]
                                                                                                                                                                  Donc, de Anton [2010-02-22 14:44:32]
                                                                                                                                  Si DH affirme cela, de Anton [2010-02-20 22:29:56]
                                                                                                                                      Et donc ?, de Meneau [2010-02-21 00:30:02]
                                                                                                                          Dans quel monde vivez vous?, de Anton [2010-02-20 01:37:03]
                                                                                                                              ..., de Meneau [2010-02-20 10:14:20]
                                                                                                                      Je ne peux que vous donner..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 09:12:49]
                                                                                                                          4 arguments... et une demande de conclusion ?, de Glycera [2010-02-20 10:40:24]
                                                                                                                              Même remarque..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 11:39:17]
                                                                                                                                  C'est ça..., de Griffon [2010-02-20 16:51:56]
                                                                                                                                      Parce que la foi est en jeu..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 18:14:36]
                                                                                                                          Approximations, radotages, insultes gratuites, et  [...], de origenius [2010-02-20 12:03:59]
                                                                                                                              Question ?, de Scribe [2010-02-20 12:10:50]
                                                                                                                                  Je me demandais justement..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 12:53:45]
                                                                                                                                      A Scribe et Vianney, de Anton [2010-02-22 14:58:28]
                                                                                                                                          Enfin !, de Meneau [2010-02-22 16:19:52]
                                                                                                                              Qui vous parle d’anathème ?, de Vianney [2010-02-20 12:33:06]
                                                                                                                              mais ,cher Origénius! je croyais, de pyo [2010-02-20 12:46:02]
                                                                                                                              Mon cher Origenius,, de Gentiloup [2010-02-20 13:04:52]
                                                                                                                              Et à part ça ?, de Meneau [2010-02-20 15:35:49]
                                                                                                                                  Ã§a va bien merci....et vous ?...., de origenius [2010-02-20 17:03:54]
                                                                                                                                      Abrutir, de Vianney [2010-02-20 17:48:36]
                                                                                                                                          Encore une citation ?....., de origenius [2010-02-20 22:03:21]
                                                                                                                                              Je ne parlais pas de vous..., de Vianney [2010-02-20 23:09:17]
                                                                                                                                                  Juste une petite mise au point...., de origenius [2010-02-21 15:35:16]
                                                                                                                                                      Merci pour le procèse d'intention, de Meneau [2010-02-21 16:23:01]
                                                                                                                                                          D'ailleurs, de Meneau [2010-02-21 16:27:02]
                                                                                                                                                      Aucun monopole, de Vianney [2010-02-21 16:48:08]
                                                                                                                                              Semper reformanda ?, de Meneau [2010-02-21 00:08:31]
                                                                                                                                      Et à part ça ?, de Meneau [2010-02-20 17:56:05]
                                                                                                                                  J'avais oublié...., de origenius [2010-02-20 17:11:04]
                                                                                                                                      Sur ce coup là ?, de Scribe [2010-02-20 17:13:26]
                                                                                                                                          Quel dommage ! Mon cher Scribe..., de origenius [2010-02-20 17:31:12]
                                                                                                                                              Question d'argumentation, de Scribe [2010-02-20 17:35:09]
                                                                                                                                                  Facile !....., de origenius [2010-02-20 17:37:37]
                                                                                      Ce que vous dites n'a pas de sens !, de Halleluia [2010-02-21 01:54:17]
                                                                                          Attention de différencier, de Anton [2010-02-21 16:25:46]
                                                                                              Non !, de Halleluia [2010-02-21 19:13:40]
                                                                                  pourtant l'explication de Meneau, de pyo [2010-02-17 07:36:19]
                                                                                       C'est une exécution...? , de origenius [2010-02-17 08:39:16]
                                                                                          Cher Origénius, de Anton [2010-02-17 22:12:51]
                                                                                              Mon cher Anton......, de origenius [2010-02-17 22:56:27]
                                                                                                  en tant que théologien amateur, de Scribe [2010-02-20 19:28:23]
                                                                                      je précise , pour enfoncer le clou, de pyo [2010-02-18 07:45:38]
                                                                                          Pour enfoncer le clou, de Anton [2010-02-19 04:15:34]
                                                                                              Pyo, laissez tomber, de Scribe [2010-02-20 12:13:31]
                                                                          Sainte patience..., de Gentiloup [2010-02-16 23:39:08]
                                                                              Vous avez lu le concile(1), de Anton [2010-02-17 00:58:40]
      J'ai lu dernièrement ici cette phrase:, de Castille [2010-02-14 16:18:15]
          Car Dieu n'accorde RIEN en masse!, de Anton [2010-02-14 16:41:50]
          là je ne vous suis pas, de Paxtecum [2010-02-14 16:46:46]
              [réponse], de Lux [2010-02-14 18:11:52]
                  alors , on est tous d'accord, de jejomau [2010-02-14 19:01:21]
              Ce n'est pas le nombre qui fait le Concile, mais c [...], de Castille [2010-02-15 10:14:40]
                  Mais non..., de Griffon [2010-02-16 19:54:45]
                      Mais non... Mais non..., de Ennemond [2010-02-16 20:17:44]
              le concile, encore et toujours, de Pantelemion [2010-02-18 20:05:31]
              Question de lecture, précisément!, de azur [2010-02-19 18:15:40]
                  je persiste dans ma pensée, de Paxtecum [2010-02-19 22:28:09]
                      [réponse], de azur [2010-02-19 22:40:31]
                      Et dans les faits, qu'en est-il de l'herméneutiqu [...], de Gentiloup [2010-02-19 23:33:48]
                          Wikipedia, de Paxtecum [2010-02-20 00:02:08]
                              L'avis de wikipedia vs. l'avis des théologiens ?, de Meneau [2010-02-20 00:39:45]
                                  Merci et à lire, de Paxtecum [2010-02-20 10:22:02]
                              L'Esprit-Saint de Dieu ne peut ni Se tromper, ni n [...], de Gentiloup [2010-02-20 12:31:29]
                                  Rupture dans la continuité ou continuité dans la [...], de Oesope [2010-02-20 15:15:51]
                                      Dialogue: le grand mot!, de Gentiloup [2010-02-20 21:11:40]