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Tridentine revival rumors again Imprimer
Auteur : Jean Kinzler
Sujet : Tridentine revival rumors again
Date : 2006-10-11 19:41:38

The Times October 11, 2006

Pope set to bring back Latin Mass that divided the Church

By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent
THE Pope is taking steps to revive the ancient tradition of the Latin Tridentine Mass in Catholic churches worldwide, according to sources in Rome.
Pope Benedict XVI is understood to have signed a universal indult — or permission — for priests to celebrate again the Mass used throughout the Church for nearly 1,500 years. The indult could be published in the next few weeks, sources told The Times.

Use of the Tridentine Mass, parts of which date from the time of St Gregory in the 6th century and which takes its name from the 16th-century Council of Trent, was restricted by most bishops after the reforms of the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).

This led to the introduction of the new Mass in the vernacular to make it more accessible to contemporary audiences. By bringing back Mass in Latin, Pope Benedict is signalling that his sympathies lie with conservatives in the Catholic Church.

One of the most celebrated rebels against its suppression was Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who broke with Rome in 1988 over this and other reforms. He was excommunicated after he consecrated four bishops, one of them British, without permission from the Pope.

Some Lefebvrists, including those in Brazil, have already been readmitted. An indult permitting the celebration of the Tridentine Mass could help to bring remaining Lefebvrists and many other traditional Catholics back to the fold.

The priests of England and Wales are among those sometimes given permission to celebrate the Old Mass according to the 1962 Missal. Tridentine Masses are said regularly at the Oratory and St James’s Spanish Place in London, but are harder to find outside the capital.

The new indult would permit any priest to introduce the Tridentine Mass to his church, anywhere in the world, unless his bishop has explicitly forbidden it in writing.

Catholic bloggers have been anticipating the indult for months. The Cornell Society blog says that Father Martin Edwards, a London priest, was told by Cardinal Joseph Zen, of Hong Kong, that the indult had been signed. Cardinal Zen is alleged to have had this information from the Pope himself in a private meeting.

“There have been false alarms before, not least because within the Curia there are those genuinely well-disposed to the Latin Mass, those who are against and those who like to move groups within the Church like pieces on a chessboard,” a source told The Times. “But hopes have been raised with the new pope. It would fit with what he has said and done on the subject. He celebrated in the old rite, when Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.”

The 1962 Missal issued by Pope John XXIII was the last of several revisions of the 1570 Missal of Pius V. In a lecture in 2001, Cardinal Ratzinger said that it would be “fatal” for the Missal to be “placed in a deep-freeze, left like a national park, a park protected for the sake of a certain kind of people, for whom one leaves available these relics of the past”.

Daphne McLeod, chairman of Pro Ecclesia et Pontifice, a UK umbrella group that campaigns for the restoration of traditional orthodoxy, said: “A lot of young priests are teaching themselves the Tridentine Mass because it is so beautiful and has prayers that go back to the Early Church.”

TRADITIONAL SERVICE

The Tridentine Mass is celebrated entirely in Latin, except for a few words and phrases in Greek and Hebrew. There are long periods of silence and the priest has his back to the congregation

In 1570, Pope St Pius V said that priests could use the Tridentine rite forever, “without scruple of conscience or fear of penalty”

Since the Second Vatican Council, the Tridentine Mass has been almost entirely superseded by the Mass of Pope Paul VI

Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, who took the lead in opposing the reforms, continued to celebrate the old Mass at his seminary in Ecône, Switzerland, and formed a dissident group. He was excommunicated in 1988

The advantages of the Mass, according to the faithful, are in its uniformity and the fact that movements and gestures are prescribed, so that there is no room for “personalisation”
HERE
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Tridentine revival rumors-- again
Posted by: Diogenes - Today 9:15 AM ET USA

The London Times is reporting that Pope Benedict will soon issue the long-awaited document allowing for widespread use of the Tridentine rite.
OK, now, relax. We've heard these rumors before. And this is a London Times story. We've had reason to point out, in the recent past, how dreadful the Times coverage of Vatican affairs can be.

Today's article is another example: a journalistic stew of rehashed rumors, unattributed citations, and inaccurate analysis. Still this passage was interesting...

Pope Benedict XVI is understood to have signed a universal indult — or permission — for priests to celebrate again the Mass used throughout the Church for nearly 1,500 years. The indult could be published in the next few weeks, sources told The Times.
The Times is hearing what everybody else is hearing. The consensus among the rumor-mongers is that the papal document will appear in November. That's speculation; nobody really knows. But it's coming: a motu proprio authorizing all priests to celebrate the Tridentine Mass without special permission.

Posted by: altar boy - Today 12:47 PM ET USA
RPP: If you think the SSPX will unite with Rome simply because of this indult, then you do not know what a real traditionalist is. The Tridentine Mass gets all the publicity, but we also want the catechism and laws restored. We want the sacraments and sacramentals restored; we want the Bible and liturgical calendar restored; we want the music, art, literature, altars and tabernacles restored; and, we want the priesthood restored. And we don’t want to endure the false ecumenism of Vatican II.


Posted by: esalkin - Today 12:20 PM ET USA
Minutes after (or even before) it is released the USCCB will issue a statement citing: - It is not in our tradition - the need for a unified worship - use of an unknown language - the "sisters of perpetual liberation" feel excluded. - and on and on....

Remember we don't need an indult to kneel either.


Posted by: RPP - Today 11:27 AM ET USA
I hope the article is accurate. If it is, we can thank FSSP and the Society of St. John Cantius, Una Voce and all the the societies and groups that promote tradition.

We will also be able to see if SSPX truly desires to be in communion with Rome.
CWNews


La discussion

 Le pape envisage d'alléger les restrictions sur l [...], de Bernard Joustrate [2006-10-11 17:14:07]
      Bon , de Adso [2006-10-11 17:24:09]
          Les liseurs de Reims, de collectif 51 [2006-10-11 17:33:51]
              Je retiens l'idée, de Xénophon IV [2006-10-11 19:18:12]
                  Il faut se montrer!, de collectif 51 [2006-10-11 20:16:46]
          Vous avez fini, de Archange [2006-10-11 18:00:04]
              Ruinart?, de Marc B. [2006-10-11 18:05:33]
                  Gosset vous, de JacqHou [2006-10-11 20:23:04]
              Le champagne, de Adso [2006-10-12 09:00:22]
          Est ce l'expression du saint Père?, de JacqHou [2006-10-11 20:16:33]
      Voir également..., de Ænigma [2006-10-11 17:25:04]
          Pour ou contre le rtblsmt de la messe en latin: vo [...], de Sam Gamegie [2006-10-11 17:40:08]
              Votez tous !, de Adso [2006-10-11 17:43:42]
              45.1% pour, de collectif 51 [2006-10-11 17:46:14]
                  Mine de rien, de Myster de Kerpolik [2006-10-11 17:51:31]
                      Vous ne comprenez pas!, de Rémi [2006-10-11 18:04:29]
                  Vers un nouvel indult, de Jean Kinzler [2006-10-11 17:54:30]
              45.8%, de Marc B. [2006-10-11 18:40:32]
      Cela fait une semaine que l'info est chez Golias:, de AB Gédéon [2006-10-11 18:02:54]
          non mais vous revez!!!!!!!!!, de Prof [2006-10-11 18:21:09]
              Je suis d'accord, de Don Rodrigue [2006-10-11 19:07:28]
                  j'aimerais bien savoir, de Bertrand [2006-10-11 19:39:07]
                      Quelle mauvaise foi, de GDB [2006-10-12 02:16:23]
          Aux armes !, de Hercule Poirot [2006-10-11 20:33:15]
      Pope will broaden use of latin mass, de Jean Kinzler [2006-10-11 19:32:53]
          Tridentine revival rumors again, de Jean Kinzler [2006-10-11 19:41:38]
      La Croix veut une assistance minimale pour l'indul [...], de GDB [2006-10-12 02:35:15]
          Fan de chichourle !!!, de Sursum corda [2006-10-12 02:59:55]
          Là où deux ou trois, de Thierry [2006-10-12 08:45:49]
          C'est une plaisanterie?, de collectif 51 [2006-10-12 17:14:50]
              Un seul rite en vigueur ????, de Chouette [2006-10-12 17:40:17]
                  Le rite dominicain..., de Athanasios D. [2006-10-12 18:49:50]
                      non, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-12 18:59:13]
                          Pas d'accord..., de Athanasios D. [2006-10-12 20:19:22]
                              vous avez mal lisu, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-13 09:25:29]
                                  Pas de problème..., de Athanasios D. [2006-10-13 15:37:02]
                                      votre biftek™., de abbé F.H. [2006-10-13 20:06:00]
                                          Naaan!, de Athanasios D. [2006-10-14 00:55:02]
                                              Merci ..., de Ion [2006-10-14 08:59:17]
                                                  L'écho, sans doute !, de N.M. [2006-10-14 10:32:40]
                                                      A propos du P.Congar, de Eymerich [2006-10-14 12:21:58]
                                                          Comme vous dites, de N.M. [2006-10-14 12:33:30]
                                                          Extraits, de Eymerich [2006-10-14 13:00:40]
                                                      Perplexité..., de Athanasios D. [2006-10-14 12:37:02]
                                                      Vous parait-il ..., de Ion [2006-10-14 12:55:13]
                                                      L'Offertoire chez Luther, Cranmer, Paul VI..., de John DALY [2006-10-14 15:28:51]
                                                          Un ou Le ?, de Ion [2006-10-14 15:43:16]
                                                              Langage de l'Eglise, de John DALY [2006-10-14 16:21:44]
                                                  ben naaaaaaan!!!!, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-14 14:45:01]
                                                      Comme à la Cène ?, de Ion [2006-10-14 15:35:49]
                                                          Trente XXIIème session, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-14 15:48:57]
                                                              En quoi cela justifie t-il que ..., de Ion [2006-10-14 15:59:41]
                                                                  Faire doublon ? , de Petit Garçon [2006-10-14 16:04:48]
                                                                      Vous demandez pourquoi ?!!, de Marchenoir [2006-10-14 16:37:55]
                                                                          oui, je demande pourquoi ..., de Petit Garçon [2006-10-14 16:51:27]
                                                                              OK, de Marchenoir [2006-10-14 17:26:45]
                                                                                  vous avez raison !, de Petit Garçon [2006-10-14 17:45:50]
                                                                  je vous ai dit que je devais filer, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-14 16:10:25]
                          Pas d'accord non plus..., de John DALY [2006-10-12 21:00:52]
                              ma formule était lapidaire, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-13 09:41:54]
                                  Le Rite Dominicain, de John DALY [2006-10-13 15:06:16]
                                      merci de ces précisions, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-13 19:40:34]
                                          Ah oui..., de John DALY [2006-10-13 20:36:05]
                              toujours à John Daly, de abbé F.H. [2006-10-13 09:45:45]
          Le problème, de Don Rodrigue [2006-10-13 12:16:39]
              Que vous dites..., de Archange [2006-10-14 22:38:40]